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INDI Library v2.0.6 is Released (02 Feb 2024)

Bi-monthly release with minor bug fixes and improvements

bulb >30sec with Canon 60Da - is it possible?

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Hello Team

Firstly great work with the developments to Kstars, Ekos and Indi.I'm returning to the group having failed to resolve a problem with StarlightXpress MX5as guide last year despite the great efforts of Polakovic.

I'm running on Lubuntu 14.10 and I want to take multiple long eposures (>30s) using Canon 60da to replace my Windows software and ultimately I'd like only a raspberry Pi to sit outside next to my scope and camera.

I loaded Kstars-bleeding (2.3.0 + KDE 5.7.0) along with latest INDI libraries and was pleasantly surprised to be able to start some normally exposures faily quickly after clicking dozens of tabs and field options. But when I started using the sequence fields with Bulb > 30seconds things started to fail.

Before I report any details maybe somebody could put me out of misery by confirming if it is possible to take a sequence of long-exposures with my setup?

many thanks
Andrew.
9 years 2 months ago #2773

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What failed exactly?
9 years 2 months ago #2776

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thanks for quick reply knro,
A sequence of 2 x 31sec RAW shots failed, this was my test for multiple long exposures, my final goal.
I tried several times with many variants on 2 machines lubuntu and ubuntu 14.10. I started to create a workflow log since it appears that "save configuration" doesn't save all fields, some I know about like pixel size but others I'm not sure about i.e. saving directory seems not to work, Y pixel seems not to change

My system is slow so I added a Delay but this didn't seem to create any delay and I suspect this might be causing the problem i.e 1st image downloading while secong trying to fire. This evening I'll try to run with a Debug log since I'm certain this will help you more than my description and hopefully will reveal an error on my side.

Andrew
9 years 2 months ago #2783

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I added CCD Info property to the configuration file now so it is saved as restored as with other properties. Regarding the bulb fail, the likely solution is to introduce delay as you proposed.
9 years 2 months ago #2784

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i tried some runs using Delay without success. It seems adding even long delay, say 20sec has no direct effect, i tried with many variants set on the camera and in the INDI tabs but eventually they all get stuck in 'downloading..' screen in Ekos and this freezes the INDI and Ekos windows. I had to close all windows but noticed when switching camera off it told me 'downloading 2 images'.

I tried going back to Manual mode instead of Bulb. I ran through similar set of tests as above. Immediately things run smoother, both in INDI and Ekos running multi short exposures - BUT delay seems not to work.

I don't think delay is the issue otherwise the sequence in Manual mode would fail. Also I noticed when I hit Set in INDI while last image was still downloading the instruction was somehow buffered and released shutter after download.

I tried setting >30s in Manual mode, it appears to work but actually the shutter is released after 30s.

I attach the debug script where you can see this last session that appears to run OKb but actually are 30s exposures.

The log doesn't seem to give too much in info I think I saw more detailed from gphoto, should I run something else?

Andrew.

Lubuntu 14.10
INDI 0.9.9
Kstars ver 2.3.0 (Kstars bleeding)
KDE Dev Framewks 5.7.0
gphoto 2.5.4.1
9 years 2 months ago #2789

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I just took three consecutive 40 seconds exposure without delay and it worked fine (on EOS 600D). Can someone else check if they have any issues?
Last edit: 9 years 2 months ago by Jasem Mutlaq.
9 years 2 months ago #2793

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I see the 600d (ti3 rebel) uses Manual mode to access bulb settings.
On 60d bulb via manual is not possible you have to set Bulb mode on camera.
9 years 2 months ago #2794

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I think I'll open this question on a gphoto forum to see if anyone has resolved this, I have a feeling it is a major hurdle. In the meantime I've had to return to Windows XP and Canon EOS Capture :sick:
9 years 1 month ago #2898

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Hi Barker,
I have the same problem, both with INDI and darktable photoshop or the like.

I have a Canon 450D that suffers same behaviour and I had a look at gphoto site and gphoto source code.
Canon EOSs do have two config items : bulb exposure an bulb mode, they are two different flags.
I guess the problem is that indi gphoto does not properly handle these flags.
Since a gphoto command line that works for bulb is this (example 5s exposure):
----
gphoto2 --set-config shutterspeed=bulb --set-config bulb=1 --wait-event=5s --set-config bulb=0 --wait-event-and-download=5s --filename /home/alfredo/bubu-%Y%m%d%H%M%S
----
it is automatically demonstrated that Indi gphoto ccd cannot handle this, because there is no equivalent setup in indi for this command line.
30s result in indi comes out because 30s is maximum "normal" speed in "M" mode, it is independent by the the exposure field value in main indi gphoto ccd panel. That field has a meaning that probably refers to ccd devices, not to EOS cameras.
I played a bit with indi and my EOS camera and i realized that Indi confuses Bulb mode and Bulb exposure. I guess that the problem is in the way the protocol handles bulb situations in Indi.
I had a similar problem with a Pentax K-m camera and unofficial sw PkTriggerCord. I had to modify the protocol flow in the sw to handle this ( it is necessary to handle an event loop in these cases).
I do not think tthe solution of this mess is simple.
Under MS-Window Canon SDK does not suffer these limitations, but if You analize better the technical exchange scenario between camera and PC You will discover that things are very much complex of what they look like at first glance.
Under Windows I use APT, but as an example, also Astrojan tools, BackyardEOS, IRIS and others do the job, Canon SDK is playing the role in the background.
I tried to install EOS utilities under wine but there is no evidence around internet that it is technically possible. USB support in wine is not clear, I did not find any paper, all but a notice on wine site that explains how to "clone" registry keys, but no other info about the usb mechanism in wine.

Best solution would be Indi gphoto ccd developers solve this issue, giving chance to users to chain EOS cameras with the complete set of Indi available features.

Hope this will trigger some useful discussion !!!
Alfredo
Celestron C8-N-GT +FirstScope 80
Canon EOS 450D
9 years 1 month ago #2999

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We're using libgphoto2, and you can inspect gphoto_ccd.cpp and gphoto_driver.c for some idea on what's going on. Specifically line 507 in gphoto_driver.c:
int gphoto_start_exposure(gphoto_driver *gphoto, unsigned int exptime_msec)

This is where the magic happen when starting an exposure. I don't quite understand your issue, so please take a look. i.e. if there is setting we need to set for some EOS models, let me know.
9 years 1 month ago #3000

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I had a fast look at the source code gphoto indi and pktriggercord (modified by me) all into same eclipse workspace.
I am not sure about what I am saying, but i think that the problem may be expressed in this way :
You start an exposure an wait for end of it some way. if You are in bulb mode You must start but also STOP exposure, like old fashion cameras : You press and start, You release and releasing You stop. In the middle all camera events and user graphics operations must be handled. Results of my tests and notes about Canon EOS Bulb mode on gphoto site lead me to think that the code to handle bulb mode should be checked in libgphoto and/or indi gphoto ccd to see if this sequence is implemented. Morover, not al EOS behave in same way.
Some tips :
All settings that refer fixed mechanical dial setup should be always read but never written.
Hence, manual mode must be set before using sw.
Bulb refers to an exposure > 30s rotating the exposure wheel. This setting may not be maintened by the camera and You can change the exposure one step, i.e. back to 30s, without getting into conflict with the mechanical settings.
EOS utilities under Windows do not allow to change the settings that refer to physical switches.
I understand these notes to be quite generic, but I do not want to go through the code because I cannot guarantee how much time I can dedicate to it.

Hope this helps, this is for me an interesting topic.

Alfredo
Celestron C8-N-GT +FirstScope 80
Canon EOS 450D
9 years 1 month ago #3005

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Is this an issue though with INDI GPhoto driver or with libgphoto2? We just issue API calls. If there is a way to fix it from within the driver, a patch is appreciated. Of course given that it does cause issues for other cameras like mine.
9 years 1 month ago #3028

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