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kstars frustrations

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After few conversations on this forum, I have learned few things about setting things up with kstars and I wanted to give another try.
So I have aligned my Celestron Nexstar Evolution 6. Weirdly enough, that alignment is not so precise, or probably I am doing something wrong (not sure how to make alignment more precise?)
I mean it works okish for first few mins and then is completly misaligned.

I am connecting CCD, and fireing things up. But from there, I have still no idea what I am doing and tutorials I found so far as kind of out of date so I hope that somebody could guide me here :)
After few updates, I have noticed that picture from CCD comes black and white instead of color and it has some weird grid pattern that was not there before. Not sure if this is new feature of if something is not right ? (you can see it in youtube attached ~1:00min)

Guide TAB
To be hones I am not 100% sure what should i expect from this guiding feature, what exactly it would guide ? but at this moment it did nothing for me. I hit "capture", clicked on my point of interest, guide and nothing happened. It makes circle around planet but nothing besides that.

Solve TAB
yet again, not sure what I am supposed to get out of this solve - is it supposed to help stabilizing alignment? keep track of tracked object?
Anyway, I click "capture and solve" clicked on target, and I thought "slew to target" would do something, but it did nothing :(

CCD Tab:
Live preview would be useful to see what is happening, but I have no idea where could I set up exposure for live preview.
"preview" button is not helping me much, besides that It react to set exposure value.

From that point I don't know where I could even start making photos/videos from stacking. Does even kstars have an option for stacking photos?
I have so many questions and I was unable to find much of help within videos that would guide me through.
Most frustrating part is not being able to even start. I would love to have some clear steps and understand how should i approach in order to get proper photo :) From that point I could just focus on refining it.

The following user(s) said Thank You: Jasem Mutlaq
5 years 8 months ago #27496
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Replied by the.cakemaker on topic kstars frustrations

Oh boy. Where should i begin?

I think you first should check the settings for your devices in the Indi Control panel. Settings for the cam especially. I think they are not set up right.
To use the guiding feature, it is neccesary to connect the guiding cable to the guiding port of your mount. Did you do so? And normally, you use a second cam for guiding.
It also would help to see the notification part of your window, where the messages are shown, what the system is doing at the moment.
The plate solving tool is working great, but it needs a working cam first. So put your focus on that.
You are messing around with the mount control, but you really dont neet that anyway.
you just have to right click the object you want to move to, and if its there, click on capture and solve. be sure to use "online-solving" if you do not allready have donwloaded the files you need for solving.

I stop here. First get rid of the funny squares in your liveview.

cheers
Niki
Skywatcher EQ6-R | Lacerta 10" Carbon-Newton | Lacerta MFoc Motorfocus | Moravian G2 8300 Color | Canon EOS 5DMarkIIIa | Lodestar X2 guiding cam | KSTARS 3.4.3. on my outdoor-Laptop with KDE-Neon/Plasma | KSTARS 3.4.3. on Remote-IMac with Catalina | KSTARS 3.4.3 on Remote-Macbook Air with Catalina
The following user(s) said Thank You: Jasem Mutlaq
5 years 8 months ago #27497

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Replied by Jasem Mutlaq on topic kstars frustrations

Hello Albert,

I just watched the video. I think you need to understand the basics of astrophotography terms first.

1. Alignment/Astrometry: To make sure that where the telescope is pointing is what you actually seeing. If the telescope in KStars was centered on Arcturus, then you should see Arcturus exactly in the center of your image. But since mounts have errors in tracking, it's not usually the case, there is always some offset. So the alignment module in KStars is to make sure that the mount is properly aligned.. i.e. what you see in KStars should be what you get on your camera precisely.

2. Guiding: Since most astrophotography images needs to be long exposure, we need to collect data/photons from exactly the same area in the sky. Imagine if you take a photo with your phone was moving it around, it would look blurry, right? The same applies to astrophotos. We mitigate this by selecting one star in the frame and telling Ekos: Please keep this star exactly where it is in the frame! If it moves any direction, move the mount to this locked position so we grantee the overall frame is the same. But for this, you need a second CCD camera. You cannot use one camera for both guiding and capture (you can with some models from SBIG, but for ASI no).

3. For Celestron Evolution, you can also try INDI Celestron Evolution Mount. Not sure how stable it is now, but it is an option.

I noted that the mount was not tracking (i.e. it needs to be pointing at the same location in the sky which we call sidereal tracking). Usually, I would completely avoid using arrow keys to move the mount. After you set it up with the hand controller, then only use Track from KStars and nothing else.

So steps are usually like this:
1. Connect to Equipment
2. Focus (make sure stars appear focused)
3. Align (Capture & Solve with Slew to Target selected)
4. If you have a separate guide camera, then Guide
5. Now you can capture!

I hope this clears up any confusion in how to use Ekos.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Craig
Last edit: 5 years 8 months ago by Jasem Mutlaq.
5 years 8 months ago #27498

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Replied by Peter Kennett on topic kstars frustrations

Albert, your questions indicate you really need more knowledge of Astrophotography and perhaps astronomy in general. There are no plug-n-play options for astrophotography, and there are no shortcuts either.

I highly suggest you contact a local astronomy group and bring your equipment out for a night with others who have already gone through the long process to become skilled. Nothing beats real hands-on experience. You have all the right tools, so you will get better quickly. There's a lot of learn, in both the science of astronomy and the technical skill in astrophotography. But you are young and have plenty of time to learn it. Have fun, it's a fantastic journey!
5 years 8 months ago #27505

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Replied by Amin Sharaf on topic kstars frustrations

I did not start long ago either and had my problems getting accustomed to terms, way of working, all the math etc.

For me it helped to start with one thing at a time. Do not try to goto, align, guide and shoot photos all at once. Start with one module and try to understand it.

My first attempts were to get used to the cam-module only by just shooting photos of the moon and understanding the different settings, I had the same issues with the blocks in the video, video being completely black, images not being stretched, greenish when debayered etc.

Then I moved on to goto and alignment to be able to shoot objects harder to get into the field of view with star hopping.

Then I included guiding and shot longer exposure rates. Now I am still learning especially photo processing and keen own testing the little StellarMate on the next clear night.

Like PK said, it is a long road, I think, but very interesting and satisfying. Never delete your first shots and look at them a few weeks/months later and you'll see your improvements. (I still have that tiny Saturn, shot with my iPhone through the lens of the Maksutov) ;-)
Skywatcher Newton 200/1000, Sharpstar 60ED, Canon Lenses
Skywatcherr EQ-6 R, AZ-GTI
StellarMate @ Raspberry Pi 3B+
ASI 183 MC Pro
ASI 290 MC guiding cam on APM 60 ImageMaster
Sesto Senso 2 Focuser + Astromechanics Canon Focuser

5 years 8 months ago #27515

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Replied by Amin Sharaf on topic kstars frustrations

BTW, what I would find helpful especially for beginners would be a setting for automatic exposures in the alignment and guiding modules, so that Ekos tries to find an ideal mix between long enough exposures to get sudfficient light and short enough to be able to guide properly, e.g.

Sometimes especially if it is not yet completely dark I find it hard to find the right values and I takes a couple of tries to get alignment done properly or guiding stable.
Skywatcher Newton 200/1000, Sharpstar 60ED, Canon Lenses
Skywatcherr EQ-6 R, AZ-GTI
StellarMate @ Raspberry Pi 3B+
ASI 183 MC Pro
ASI 290 MC guiding cam on APM 60 ImageMaster
Sesto Senso 2 Focuser + Astromechanics Canon Focuser

5 years 8 months ago #27516

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Thank you for replies everyone!

@the.cakemaker: Well, cable is connected right as it does move my mount towards selected star. As for notification part, I have attached full log if that helps.

@knro:
1. Got it, and my mount was aligned enough that if i pointed to lets say Saturn, it moved mount to Saturn, but not dead-center. This is where I was wondering whenever this is expected error level from mount or not (or maybe the way i aligned was not good enough)
2. A-ha! gotya, this explains a lot. As I only have one, I guess this won't fly :) I shell look for guiding cam then. But for now, I hope I can at least check how it is supposed to be working using my camera (so guiding camera only) - so I am surprised here that it is not tracking and aligning my mount then.
3. I did, but it uses wifi and locks it when i need it. I am fine with cables if that changes anything ?
I have used hand tracking as I wanted to point at something bright to make sure i have proper focus (I had to change eyepiece to camera and i need to set focus from kstars preview) I wish that live preview would have option to adjust exposure, it might be easier for me to set focus.
So as for steps, I am aligning with eyepiece (3 stars aliment) so cannot set focus of camera first. Unless I should just use my red-dot laser for aligning only ?
I was always wondering how precise you have to be with 3 stars alignment. If you spent too much time of making them dead center, they will move :)

@pk, agree 100%, I need more knowledge. And I am trying to get as much as I can :) To be honest with you - It is my partner that is passionate about astrophotography and I am just trying to help out with all those technicalities as much as I can :)
Her instagram :)

And yes, we are looking forward for next possible astronomy group meetup.

@RougeSquadron: Thanks for suggestions! I come from very technical background with deep photo/video knowledge. Sometimes I like to make my hands dirty and have some try and error :) Problem is, that I need to know if even software works as expected - for eg: why do I see checker pattern on my photos, is it expected?... at least knowing that it is ok, then I can move on with details. At this moment I am not sure if my setup is working ok or not :)
Last edit: 5 years 8 months ago by Albert Szostkiewicz.
5 years 8 months ago #27518

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Replied by Amin Sharaf on topic kstars frustrations

Regarding your boxed video stream check the video setting, it is probably set to 8bit RGB, switch it to 24bit or LUMA, it worked for me.

check also here: Video settings
Skywatcher Newton 200/1000, Sharpstar 60ED, Canon Lenses
Skywatcherr EQ-6 R, AZ-GTI
StellarMate @ Raspberry Pi 3B+
ASI 183 MC Pro
ASI 290 MC guiding cam on APM 60 ImageMaster
Sesto Senso 2 Focuser + Astromechanics Canon Focuser

5 years 8 months ago #27519

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Replied by the.cakemaker on topic kstars frustrations

OK. I want to help and thatfor i ask you if you understand that right.

Sure there is a Cable needed, to control the mount. But for guiding there is ANOTHER CABLE, that has to be connected to the guiding port of your mount.
So to understand this i ask you. Did you do so?

Do it step-by-step. Wait with guiding cam. Get your cam to make "normal" pictures when you hit preview. Then use the goto-function to a bright star, where you can be sure that your setup is pointing to with your eye.
Now go to the mount section and check if the aperture and focal length are right.
Now go to the platesolving section and hit capture and solve.
Now the system will take a picture and solve that picture, that means it will check online (or with the database) where exactly it is pointing to.
Most of the time this is NOT PERFECTLY with your object in the middle!
Now if you hit the choice "sync" next to the capture and solve button, kstars will show you with a new rectangle on the starmap, where it is pointing to.
If you checked the choice "move to target" kstars will now, that it knows where its pointing to, correct its position and take another shot to solve it. So long, until its PERFECTLY aligned where it should be.

Try to get this done. Then begin to learn how to take pictures. Not all at the same time. I had some hard times with this program, but with the help of Jasem, (KNRO)
and the nice users in this forum, you will LOVE this system in the end.
ATM i need about 10 Minutes from mounting my telescope and connecting all my stuff, to get my first picture of the desired object.
Don´t give up!

Niki
Skywatcher EQ6-R | Lacerta 10" Carbon-Newton | Lacerta MFoc Motorfocus | Moravian G2 8300 Color | Canon EOS 5DMarkIIIa | Lodestar X2 guiding cam | KSTARS 3.4.3. on my outdoor-Laptop with KDE-Neon/Plasma | KSTARS 3.4.3. on Remote-IMac with Catalina | KSTARS 3.4.3 on Remote-Macbook Air with Catalina
5 years 8 months ago #27520

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Replied by Ken Self on topic kstars frustrations

Just about everything you know about terrestrial photography is irrelevant to astrophotography and It is one of the most technically complex pursuits imaginable. It is equivalent to long lens photography of a small moving target in very low light using DIY gear on a low budget. On any night there are a million things that can go wrong. So just go slowly and address one issue at a time.
The checker pattern you see is most likely the raw image and shows the effects of the Bayer matrix over the sensor and will be sorted out in processing. For now it’s good that you are actually getting an image.
5 years 8 months ago #27536

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Replied by Peter Kennett on topic kstars frustrations

I have likened it to using a telephoto to photograph a small object that you can;t even see, while sitting on a merry-go-round. In the dark, and usually alone.
5 years 8 months ago #27551

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