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INDI Library v1.9.8 Released (29 Sep 2022)

Bi-monthly INDI Library released with new drivers and bug fixes.

Guiding far side of passing cloud interval

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Thanks. What you say sounds like my experience.
2 months 4 days ago #86552

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Steve, I have been turning off in-sequence checks because I was trying to avoid re-focusing as I have a problem with that, but you are right I had verify capture set to 0 frames and a large re-set pipeline value of 30 mins. From what you say the answer to my question is: Set the EKOS Alignment values so Alignment module is called after a period of cloud otherwise guiding continues at current location which may have drifted away from target location.

Should I set verify frames to 1 so it checks immediately and set the image delta to 0.3 as I usually set my-realign accuracy to 20 secs?

There is an underlying issue where the mount goes walkies (star trails) when guiding is suspended. This doesn't happen every time but quite often. The drift each time is different lengths and different directions but the pattern is always the same as below. Dots and lines in one direction. Examining the trailed images it is clear the problem happens when the guide RMS goes very high.


This could be because my mount has developed a fault so will check that out on next clear night taking a long exposure un-guided.
What does "re-set pipeline" actually mean?
Last edit: 2 months 4 days ago by David Bennett.
2 months 4 days ago #86553
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"set verify frames to 1 ... image delta to 0.3"
If that's good enough for your photometry, yes. A value of 1 will indeed check alignment after every frame.

"underlying issue"
Our policy for stuff like this is to change nothing in software.
Check instead, in this order, using substitutes of known performance:
-cable routing
-each cable
-power supply
finally:
-dismantle/clean/inspect/re-grease/adjust the mount

'What does "re-set pipeline"'
Don't know, but IAC, the default value of 30 arc minutes perhaps isn't as intuitive as it could be.
Maybe a more meaningful phrase would be:
're-align if the captured image position varies more than x ...'
And change units from arc-minutes to arc-seconds.

Good luck and HTH
Steve
kubuntu 22.04
700d, eq6, 120mm. Yes, the old one.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Hy Murveit
Last edit: 2 months 4 days ago by alacant.
2 months 4 days ago #86554

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David,

There are several of us that have posted similar issues. When guiding is suspended due to clouds, it seems that "unpredictable results may occur" after the clouds pass. I don't know why EKOS sends extraneous pulses when guiding is suspended... but it does it frequently in my setup.

I tried using the check alignment every X frames. I used every 10 frames, but you can use a smaller number if you like. When it works, it's awesome. Just beware... I've had two nights where EKOS checked alignment and started the alignment process, finished, but never started guiding/capturing again. I posted the log on here, but no explanation/answers.

As I posted on another related thread... I wish that the KStars/EKOS team would pause working on new features for a bit and work towards coming up with a more resilient cloud recovery process.

Good luck!

Ron
Mounts: Sky-Watcher EQ6-R Pro, Meade LX85, Celestron NexStar Evolution Alt/Az
OTAs: Celestron 8" Edge HD w/Hyperstar, Meade 80mm APO Triplet Refractor
Cameras: ASI533MC Pro, ASI183MC Pro, ASI224MC, ASI120MC-S, ZWO ASI290MM
Raspberry Pi 4 with Stellarmate OS, MacBook Pro
2 months 4 days ago #86555

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Steve, to be clear, are you saying the interface label for image delta is incorrect and it should read seconds and not minutes? Is it better if delta was given in seconds as minutes is a large value for imaging?

Should software be changed to at least give an accurate phrase. Even if underlying guide software has no errors it is really import for the user interface to be clear and precise backed up with on-line documentation. Writing good documentation is a real drag but really important.

I check cables and power supply on a regular basis and will check the mount as that could be the cause. At the moment it's clear the guiding RMS goes very high > 1000 as cloud starts to pass through and I see trailed images with mount going out of position. Turning on verify image position and setting a delta should help and put mount back to correct position but an unnecessary action if mount was left to continue guiding at sidereal rate and not go out of position.

Let me do some checks please and I will report back with results.
2 months 4 days ago #86556

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Hi Ron, thanks for your feedback. It's good to know someone else in the world has the same problem as me!

As you can see, I am in conversation with Steve who I assume is key developer for the guiding module and I will do whatever testing is needed to confirm what the problem is. My rig or the software.
2 months 4 days ago #86557

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"...are you saying the interface label for image delta is incorrect and it should read seconds and not minutes..."
No: Arc-minutes is correct.
Yes: I'm suggesting, as well as a change in phraseology, a change of unit to arc-seconds would make more sense for imaging.
kubuntu 22.04
700d, eq6, 120mm. Yes, the old one.
2 months 4 days ago #86558

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"...who I assume is key developer for the guiding module"
OTC, just an end-user who has worked through similar issues and is offering hands-on-works-for-me solutions.

Maybe only developers should answer questions... Dunno. I must admit to not having read the forum rules. Please accept my apologies if this is the case.
Cheers
kubuntu 22.04
700d, eq6, 120mm. Yes, the old one.
2 months 4 days ago #86559

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Understood. Thanks for responding.
2 months 4 days ago #86571

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@David As mentioned above, you should set the "reset pipeline ..." value to 1 or 2 arcminutes and use 1 or 2 frames. That should work as long as your plate solving is reasonably reliable. See below. Reset pipeline could be worded better, for sure, but what it means is re-align and then restart guiding as far as I know.



I'd also check the "dist" checkbox on your Analyze page, so you can see the drift plotted. You'll only see that plot if the alignment check ("reset pipleline...") has been checked for the session you're recording.



With those changes, you likely would have returned to reasonable imaging a few frames after the clouds passed.

I can't tell what version of KStars/Ekos you were using. There were some bugs a while back that caused the guider to incorrectly pulse the mount away from the target. I believe it was fixed in 3.5.8.

@Steve, thanks so much for answering questions. This is a collaborative project--it needs the help of knowledgeable folks like you! Please continue to post.

@Ron Wolfgang has fixed some bugs related to guiding not restarting, and is likely working on others. Message him and see if your issue has been addressed...and please be patient/kind. The best way to improve KStars is to volunteer your efforts. This is an open-source volunteer-based project. If you can code, try to fix the issues. If you can't code, perhaps you can organize the online documentation, do user surveys on improvements to the user experience, gather logs and other useful debugging information for issues that might exist, test proto-releases, ... We do appreciate your bug reports.
AP1100 & Orion Atlas Pro, WO/ZS105 w/Moonlight V2 focus, GSO RC10 w/RSF focus
ZWO ASI1600, Astronomik Filters, ST80, QHY 5L-IIm.
KStars/Ekos/Indi on NUC10 & RPi4 w/SSD -- Ubuntu
Projects: Greedy Scheduler, Terrain, Polar Align, Analyze, Linear Focuser, SEP MultiStar & GPG Guide, FITS autostretch.
2 months 4 days ago #86572
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Hy,

I do appreciate the efforts of all the developers. I have been using StellarMate OS for over two years and have supported its efforts whenever possible. I try new features, report issues, post logs, try to help others with problems, etc.

I guess my frustration is that after two years, I still can't get through a night without unexplained aborts unless the conditions are nearly perfect. It's very disheartening to wake up in the morning only to find that EKOS quit guiding and/or capturing right after I stopped monitoring.

I'm not a coder, but am willing to help in any way I can to solve the "cloudy night" issue. As I said in another thread, I believe that EKOS may be trying to be too smart and/or elegant. Perhaps a more straightforward approach would help... such as if guiding/capturing has not worked for a certain amount of time that the system should through control back to the scheduler and reinitiate the sequence of slew, focus, align, guide, capture, etc. It's better to spend a couple of minutes with a "restart" than losing the whole night.

Anyway... didn't mean to unkind... not my intention. Let me know how I can help.

Ron
Mounts: Sky-Watcher EQ6-R Pro, Meade LX85, Celestron NexStar Evolution Alt/Az
OTAs: Celestron 8" Edge HD w/Hyperstar, Meade 80mm APO Triplet Refractor
Cameras: ASI533MC Pro, ASI183MC Pro, ASI224MC, ASI120MC-S, ZWO ASI290MM
Raspberry Pi 4 with Stellarmate OS, MacBook Pro
Last edit: 2 months 4 days ago by Ron Clanton.
2 months 4 days ago #86575

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Ron,
Thanks for your feedback. I sent you a PM. Let's discuss and figure out an approach to improving things.
Hy
AP1100 & Orion Atlas Pro, WO/ZS105 w/Moonlight V2 focus, GSO RC10 w/RSF focus
ZWO ASI1600, Astronomik Filters, ST80, QHY 5L-IIm.
KStars/Ekos/Indi on NUC10 & RPi4 w/SSD -- Ubuntu
Projects: Greedy Scheduler, Terrain, Polar Align, Analyze, Linear Focuser, SEP MultiStar & GPG Guide, FITS autostretch.
2 months 4 days ago #86576

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