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August 2020 release of INDI Library v1.8.6 introduces new drivers while providing fixes and improvements to existing devices and core framework.

Re:guiding calibration issues

1 year 6 months ago
wvreeven
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Re:guiding calibration issues #37231
So what's the difference (not mathematically but what RMS is PhD computing and what Ekos) and which one is "better"?

ASI6200 and filter wheel with a SkyWatcher Esprit 80 ED on a SkyWatcher HEQ5-Pro
ASI1600MM-Pro Cooled and filter wheel with an 8" TS Ritchey-Chrétien on a SkyWatcher EQ6-R

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1 year 6 months ago
the.cakemaker
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Re:guiding calibration issues #37232

knro wrote: So I checked PHD2 code and it is indeed different way of calculating RMS from our method. So it could be the same performance, but the RMS is different.


Does that mean that its working one as good as the other, and only the „drawing“ is different?
That would explain the still good stars though RMS of 2,0


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Skywatcher EQ6-R | Lacerta 10" Carbon-Newton | Lacerta MFoc Motorfocus | Moravian G2 8300 Color | Canon EOS 5DMarkIIIa | Lodestar X2 guiding cam | KSTARS 3.4.3. on my outdoor-Laptop with KDE-Neon/Plasma | KSTARS 3.4.3. on Remote-IMac with Catalina | KSTARS 3.4.3 on Remote-Macbook Air with Catalina

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1 year 6 months ago
klaus
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Re:guiding calibration issues #37233
This post is just to mention it:

According to www.avalon-instruments.com/support/13-tr...suggested-parameters guider settings look different between tooth belt and worm gear driven mounts. This may apply to an EQ6-R as well.

CS
Klaus

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1 year 6 months ago
Ron Kramer
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Re:guiding calibration issues #37244
I ran PHD on the nuc and was getting .35 tot rms.
I ran PHD (remotely I think adds lag?) from Ekos and PHD gave me around .79 RMS.
I then went to internal guiding in EKOS and was also around .79.

I wonder if it's because I'm using the PI and a server?
I have not done enough testing other than each one quickly the other night so these results are not definitive.
ASIair has a PHD 'lite' version of PHD. (not sure how they got it) but it's uppose to be all open source. The AIRair version works very well on my (cheapo AVX mount... usually around .50)

But do you think there is any delay in corrections if PHD is on the pi (as a server). would sending data to the client (100 yards away) be any different from being out in the dome connected locally to the PI? (smate).

_________________

It is possible, but I haven't check, that the way RMS is calculated can be slightly off between the two programs. To compare apples to apples, you'd probably want to compare PHD2 running on StellarMate vs. the NUC, does that produce also around 0.6 RMS?

We considered using PHD2, but there is no PHD2 library to do that, you either use the full program or not. I'm not sure about ASIAir, they might be using PHD2 the same way we are (via connecting to the PHD2 server). Do you also use LX200 AP experimental on the ASIAir?


AP Mach1 / CP4 APCC & PEMpro.
EXP SCI - ED152cf APO - Celestron 11" RASA - Stellarvue 80mm
Baader F2 HS NB filters, Lodestar X2 guide camera / OAG - ZWO 290mm mini
ZWO ASI1600MM Pro / ASI174M (solar) / ASI094MC
NEXDome, CLoudwatcher, AVX mount/ASIair and Stellarmate

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1 year 6 months ago
the.cakemaker
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Re:guiding calibration issues #37251
Yesterday i did the following:

Checked my Polaralignement via the Polarscope. Again. (I am not doing this often because i am not moving my stuff anyway.
Did a "Polar-Drift-Align" in PHD after i got that information elsewhere. Did this 3 times for at least 20 minutes. So i am pretty sure Polaralignment is NOT the problem.
Then wanted to do an object and guide through phd. The calibration this time was ok, but i got the immidiate information that the alignment may not be very accurate. i don´t get why...
Tried some more times where the calibration suddenly stops without bigger reason. Finally decided to use the calibration though i got the info that it would not be accurate.
Unfortunately the guiding was way off.
Then i changed to the internal guider. This worked very well. So i started my session and went to bed.
I decided to make it a real challenge for the system and made 1200sec frames.
The first 3 frames were totally OK, but then something strange happened... But see yourself..

Thinking about it, and bout the constellation and the telescopes orientation in the morning, i think it just hit the tripod, can you confirm?

This brings me to the often discussed problem i also have. I would have had the mount to slew to this object from the other side, but i unfortunately can not controll that.
Or would there be a way?

My conclution now is, that the guiding would have been very good now, without this fault. I just do not understand why PHD does not work good for me, but i can life with that, as long as the internal guider works good.

cheers
Niki

Skywatcher EQ6-R | Lacerta 10" Carbon-Newton | Lacerta MFoc Motorfocus | Moravian G2 8300 Color | Canon EOS 5DMarkIIIa | Lodestar X2 guiding cam | KSTARS 3.4.3. on my outdoor-Laptop with KDE-Neon/Plasma | KSTARS 3.4.3. on Remote-IMac with Catalina | KSTARS 3.4.3 on Remote-Macbook Air with Catalina
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1 year 6 months ago
Ron Kramer
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Re:guiding calibration issues #37264

Then wanted to do an object and guide through phd. The calibration this time was ok, but i got the immediate information that the alignment may not be very accurate. i don´t get why...


Are you performing calibration with PHD near the celestial equator/Meridian? if not it will give you this error.
You can check the calibration (in the options) and you should see a nice RED and BLUE L shaped graphic.
If it's not orthogonally correct you will get that error. They should be at a true 90' angle. (orthogonal)

IT should not matter, but does. - try and make sure you ROTATE your guide camera so that North is aligned upward. (West will likely be flipped) that's okay. It is supposed to correct for this but I've experienced that it calibrates better and without error if North is up when you review the calibration data.

I have been using the internal guider as well - and I do find it to be less than consistent. = (
I'm about to swap my 6" APO for my 11" RASA which should be more forgiving... Spring time swap.

AP Mach1 / CP4 APCC & PEMpro.
EXP SCI - ED152cf APO - Celestron 11" RASA - Stellarvue 80mm
Baader F2 HS NB filters, Lodestar X2 guide camera / OAG - ZWO 290mm mini
ZWO ASI1600MM Pro / ASI174M (solar) / ASI094MC
NEXDome, CLoudwatcher, AVX mount/ASIair and Stellarmate

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1 year 6 months ago
the.cakemaker
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Re:guiding calibration issues #37268

Ron Kramer wrote:

Then wanted to do an object and guide through phd. The calibration this time was ok, but i got the immediate information that the alignment may not be very accurate. i don´t get why...


Are you performing calibration with PHD near the celestial equator/Meridian? if not it will give you this error.
You can check the calibration (in the options) and you should see a nice RED and BLUE L shaped graphic.
If it's not orthogonally correct you will get that error. They should be at a true 90' angle. (orthogonal)

IT should not matter, but does. - try and make sure you ROTATE your guide camera so that North is aligned upward. (West will likely be flipped) that's okay. It is supposed to correct for this but I've experienced that it calibrates better and without error if North is up when you review the calibration data.

I have been using the internal guider as well - and I do find it to be less than consistent. = (
I'm about to swap my 6" APO for my 11" RASA which should be more forgiving... Spring time swap.


I performed my calibration on my object which indeed was standing quite high. But this should not make a difference, does it?
Have to stop testing due to bad weather for some time now.
rotating the guidecam is a bit of a problem for me, since i had to tinker the connection by myself, but i will give it a try.

cheers
Niki

Skywatcher EQ6-R | Lacerta 10" Carbon-Newton | Lacerta MFoc Motorfocus | Moravian G2 8300 Color | Canon EOS 5DMarkIIIa | Lodestar X2 guiding cam | KSTARS 3.4.3. on my outdoor-Laptop with KDE-Neon/Plasma | KSTARS 3.4.3. on Remote-IMac with Catalina | KSTARS 3.4.3 on Remote-Macbook Air with Catalina

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1 year 6 months ago
Ron Kramer
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Re:guiding calibration issues #37270
If you're to close the pole, PHD will often tell you that calibration isn't good and to move away from the pole. PHD is suppose to take your calibration and adjust it to where you point in the sky by looking at your RA and DEC.
In PHD a good calibration makes all the difference. After you do it - select the tab "review calibration data" and check it out. I've done it up to 3-4 times to get a good one.

AP Mach1 / CP4 APCC & PEMpro.
EXP SCI - ED152cf APO - Celestron 11" RASA - Stellarvue 80mm
Baader F2 HS NB filters, Lodestar X2 guide camera / OAG - ZWO 290mm mini
ZWO ASI1600MM Pro / ASI174M (solar) / ASI094MC
NEXDome, CLoudwatcher, AVX mount/ASIair and Stellarmate

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1 year 6 months ago 1 year 6 months ago by knro.
knro
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Re:guiding calibration issues #37312

Ron Kramer wrote: I ran PHD on the nuc and was getting .35 tot rms.
I ran PHD (remotely I think adds lag?) from Ekos and PHD gave me around .79 RMS.
I then went to internal guiding in EKOS and was also around .79.

I wonder if it's because I'm using the PI and a server?
I have not done enough testing other than each one quickly the other night so these results are not definitive.
ASIair has a PHD 'lite' version of PHD. (not sure how they got it) but it's uppose to be all open source. The AIRair version works very well on my (cheapo AVX mount... usually around .50)

But do you think there is any delay in corrections if PHD is on the pi (as a server). would sending data to the client (100 yards away) be any different from being out in the dome connected locally to the PI? (smate).


Excellent observation. To account for this, it is best to run PHD2 ON StellarMate rather than on your Windows machine. The next thing you need to try is use the ST4 cable and then compare the NUC vs StellarMate with PHD2.

What would this tell us? Well, if the relative results are the same as with the mount, then we can eliminate mount AP driver issues. However, if the results are different, then this could indicate a problem with the mount driver since it is the only variable left.

Jasem Mutlaq
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