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INDI Library v2.0.6 is Released (02 Feb 2024)

Bi-monthly release with minor bug fixes and improvements

guide module (internal)

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Replied by wotalota on topic guide module (internal)

Another thread recommended something like 20ms for minimum pulse width, which is what I am trying.

Testing last night after a good polar alignment with new OAG setup, seeing described as poor, using pulse guiding, and the guiding was awful, could hear the mount slewing around trying to track.

However once again starting guide calibration had caused "Invalid pier side response from device" errors from AstroPhysics Experimental driver which can be found in the kstars log. So cancelled guiding and took 60 second test image unguided which came out with nice round stars. If it remains clear will try again tonight using the ST4 cable instead of pulse guiding.
4 years 11 months ago #37913

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Replied by Ron Kramer on topic guide module (internal)

I have the same mount. With pulse it kicks the mount all over the sky during calibration. Jasem had me try ST4 (which I hate due to cord snag) but it eliminated the huge calibration jumps. (so that last that helps track down where the problem may be).

Recent. (last night) I was playing around somewhere and I saw a MACH1 indi driver I had never seen before? Is this new? outdated? as it didn't mention what GTO box was supported? I'm using experimental as well. But what of this mach1 mount driver?

I was using a OAG on my 6" APO - and pulse made for huge calibration (SLEWS) all across the sky. ST4 was better. But I need to figure out how to tweak controls... as I do in phd. I have min move down around 20 and Jasem said I should keep it at 100. (but I think the AP mount actually likes low min moves). I had it VERY LOW in PHD with excellent results.
AP Mach1 / CP4 APCC & PEMpro.
EXP SCI - ED152cf APO - Celestron 11" RASA - Stellarvue 80mm
Baader F2 HS NB filters, Lodestar X2 guide camera / OAG - ZWO 290mm mini
ZWO ASI1600MM Pro / ASI174M (solar) / ASI094MC
NEXDome, CLoudwatcher, AVX mount/ASIair and Stellarmate

4 years 11 months ago #37938

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Replied by wotalota on topic guide module (internal)

The ST4 connection is usable. Nearly full moon, average seeing this evening according to the web site. The guiding calmed down though it goes off from time to time but was generally staying under 1.0 with a small refractor. The attached was with exposure extended to 8 seconds, Control Parameters: minimum guide pulse 20, Proportion reduced from 66 to 33. Probably not optimal but it improved over the defaults.
4 years 11 months ago #37940
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Replied by Ron Kramer on topic guide module (internal)

Not bad, AP says guide the mount at 1.0 rate. So you had that set to 1.0 and then under the target, you changed those settings to .20 min and the rate there was (it recommends 66) but you went 33? I'll try that again. I was set around there but Jasem said not to. However, 8 seconds seems excessive. Did you try 2-3 second exposure too?

I was trying to guide a big refractor with a .64 image sale. I'd need to be under that for a RMS error. You were at .79 I think it read... I just switched to a RASA with a 1/3rd shorter focal length which will reduce my image scale (I THINK it's .84) about now. Before going to INDI PHD2 averaged around .35 and often was as good as .24

I wonder if it's the server/client delay.... since trying external PHD on the PI server resulted in nearly the same as the internal guider. I'm not sure of where the correction is being calculated. (on the pi or on the client). But at 8 second exposure any server/client communications time would be irrelevant it would seem. I'm talking low ms I'd say.

changing to the RASA was done to lower FL, but also to reduce exposure times. Having a guiding glitch during a 10-20 minute exposure was frustrating to say the least. So from F8 and 3nm astrodon filters to F2.2 and high speed baader nb filters - I hope to shoot more but shorter exposures.
AP Mach1 / CP4 APCC & PEMpro.
EXP SCI - ED152cf APO - Celestron 11" RASA - Stellarvue 80mm
Baader F2 HS NB filters, Lodestar X2 guide camera / OAG - ZWO 290mm mini
ZWO ASI1600MM Pro / ASI174M (solar) / ASI094MC
NEXDome, CLoudwatcher, AVX mount/ASIair and Stellarmate

4 years 11 months ago #37959

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Replied by wotalota on topic guide module (internal)

Yes I varied from 2 to 10 seconds, 25% to 66% etc without dramatic effect or finding a sweet spot. The incorrect/excessive 8 seconds 33% would track below 0.5 for a while and sometimes exceed 1.0. I did not learn much from the exercise on how the parameters work, but the way it tracks really well, then goes off for a while makes it seem like something external to the software needs attention. Think I will next try and run guiding without issuing any corrections, and see how the scope drifts to get a baseline.
4 years 11 months ago #37998

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Replied by Ron Kramer on topic guide module (internal)

Stay in touch here - since we have similar setup. Where are you? your profile pic weather looks like mine in W. Michigan = ) I'm about to head out and see if I can tweak shutter alignment now that it's off... since I switched scopes to a 11 rasa.
AP Mach1 / CP4 APCC & PEMpro.
EXP SCI - ED152cf APO - Celestron 11" RASA - Stellarvue 80mm
Baader F2 HS NB filters, Lodestar X2 guide camera / OAG - ZWO 290mm mini
ZWO ASI1600MM Pro / ASI174M (solar) / ASI094MC
NEXDome, CLoudwatcher, AVX mount/ASIair and Stellarmate

4 years 11 months ago #38008

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Replied by Ron Kramer on topic guide module (internal)

[b}SNAP! only took around 2.5 hours of tweaking to try and learn what teh settings do... but read em and weep![/b]

It's been in the .3's for the past 1/2 hour.


AP Mach1 / CP4 APCC & PEMpro.
EXP SCI - ED152cf APO - Celestron 11" RASA - Stellarvue 80mm
Baader F2 HS NB filters, Lodestar X2 guide camera / OAG - ZWO 290mm mini
ZWO ASI1600MM Pro / ASI174M (solar) / ASI094MC
NEXDome, CLoudwatcher, AVX mount/ASIair and Stellarmate

The following user(s) said Thank You: Jasem Mutlaq, Gonzothegreat, Jerry Black
Last edit: 4 years 11 months ago by Ron Kramer.
4 years 11 months ago #38033
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Thanks for sharing the screenshot. That ‘s very useful for next time I’m out there.


Wouter
4 years 11 months ago #38051

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If the 0.3 is repeated again on a different night using the same settings, then Ron is into something!!
4 years 11 months ago #38059

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Replied by wotalota on topic guide module (internal)

I'll try Ron's settings next time out, but the forecast looks like that will be over a week away.
4 years 11 months ago #38071

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Replied by Ron Kramer on topic guide module (internal)

It's supposed to be clear here tonight.

My mount is over weighted 40+ lb RASA, cameras, EFW, 80mm guide scoope, and a slew of heaters/wires n USB hubs.... and still I had 2+ hours of under .35 (consistent no weird spikes).

I learn by doing - so I may be in error - but this is what I feel I've found.

Let me explain something else (not sure if it will matter). I first tried ST4. This means I calibrated with ST4. Wasn't working well at all, so before giving up I went to direct to mount guiding. (STILL BAD) but it didn't seem to calibrate? (does previous calibration get used?) so there was no huge steps across the sky.
I just switched and seemed ok... then I started tweaking the settings.

Proportional gain appears to be the amount of correction you ALLOW the mount to do. 66.6 is recommended but I was having a DEVIL OF A TIME (get it 666)
It was guiding (ok) but was way off center line. It could not correct enough to get the graph to 0. I increased proportional gain... 99, 133, 166, as it moved closer to the 0 line. I ended up at 266. Higher than that seemed to be worse (in quick test) so I went back. 266.

To me this is AGGRESSIVENESS.

MIN PULSE - I thought was the smallest pulse it would give. Instead, it's more like PHD's MIN MOVE. It is the smallest error that will be corrected.
So if you have it set to 100 (default). It will not correct the mount until it is 1.0 IN ERROR! That's to much error for me. By reducing this setting it seemed that I was correcting sooner. .50 correcting any error over .49 Going to 25 corrected errors over .24

There is a limit. If you go too low (lower than seeing conditions) you will correct for poor seeing and you will get oscillation where your corrections go UP AND DOWN AND UP AND DOWN - because the corrections are correcting for seeing that is changing and over corrects.

I tried longer exposures and again it didn't seem to correct quickly enough so I reduced exposure to around 2.5 - 2 seconds.
It took a good 1 - 1.5 hours of tweaking and watching the effects of the correction bars. I turned off DEC and did RA only and then visa versa to help clarify what I was seeing. (I have the entire process captured into - most likely a BORING video, but watching it would probably be enlightening as it shows my tweaks and the results. Though it will be MUDDIED with a lot of "reentering all my settings" as I have a problem of them NOT BEING RETAINED. = (

I had a ah-ha moment as well. I have LUM RGB and SHO in my APO filter wheel. Of course, I focus with the lum. Someone asked on here a short while ago, how do I focus in HA. I said you don't.

here it comes... the RASA has a EFW with only S H O in it. (DOH) LUCKILY - it's a F2.2 scope with highspeed NB filters for this aperture. If I kick the gain a little I can get focus and place solve exposures in 3-4 seconds with Ha.

so - correction - to focus in HA boost the gain and aperture to allow a decently quick exposure. = )
AP Mach1 / CP4 APCC & PEMpro.
EXP SCI - ED152cf APO - Celestron 11" RASA - Stellarvue 80mm
Baader F2 HS NB filters, Lodestar X2 guide camera / OAG - ZWO 290mm mini
ZWO ASI1600MM Pro / ASI174M (solar) / ASI094MC
NEXDome, CLoudwatcher, AVX mount/ASIair and Stellarmate

4 years 11 months ago #38074

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Replied by Ron Kramer on topic guide module (internal)

Another from last night with target - notice the guider cam VIA I changed to pulse from ST4 after I had calibrated with ST4 ???
in case it matters.

P.S. I'm quite sure my polar alignment is off too. I've bumped the mount around the last couple months and then swapped scopes and balanced and bumped the mount (I have a tripod) and by watching the dec I know I'm way off. So this awesome .32 RMS result is with poor alignment after wrestling off the 6" and bouncing a 11" RASA up on the mount. I won't check alignment until things warm up a bit out there at night.

hmmm just occured to me. POLEMASTER won't work on the PI. I may have to try the Ekos alignment tool.
I'll try and check my spacing today - I totally could not get any subs that appeared to be in focus. (let me see if I have one to share). It has to be camera spacing.

yeah zoomed in on one. Focus routine said I was HFR of 1.5 !!!! but was grossly out. I'll bet it's spacing.
attached...



AP Mach1 / CP4 APCC & PEMpro.
EXP SCI - ED152cf APO - Celestron 11" RASA - Stellarvue 80mm
Baader F2 HS NB filters, Lodestar X2 guide camera / OAG - ZWO 290mm mini
ZWO ASI1600MM Pro / ASI174M (solar) / ASI094MC
NEXDome, CLoudwatcher, AVX mount/ASIair and Stellarmate

Last edit: 4 years 11 months ago by Ron Kramer.
4 years 11 months ago #38075
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